Transcript of IPIX photographer chat, 3 September 2006

Here's the chat log of the IPIX photographer chat conducted on 3 September 2006;
All opinions are the participants. IVRPA held the chat as a public service
to the VR community. Another chat will be held next week to accommodate
European participants.
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AIM: ivrpa
8:30 PM
voyager360@mac.com has joined this chat.
8:30 PM
HI mIke here?
sure, once you give me some clear instructiojns.
WHERE do I go? what do I do?
you are in the chat room.
ah, ok.
can you see the others?
hoylekoontz has joined this chat.
nope. just you and me.
some folks are on AIM, having trouble getting in....
is it: FILE>GO TO CHAT?
AOL has always been pretty straight forward and easy to use.
HHAAAA!
for 13 year olds....

easypano has joined this chat.
Hi, everyone, this is Danny from Easypano!
jmagiera@mac.com has joined this chat.
jmagiera@mac.com has left this chat.
8:45 PM
Hi danny, it's Bart. Hows Carol yang doing?
just addinga few more people. now
sounds good.
vrscotth has joined this chat.
Hi, This is Scott Highton.
Hi Scott. Bart Wilson here, CEO of Voyager International.
jugstopper2 has joined this chat.
Hi all. . . Hoyle Koontz with Technipix in North Carolina. . .
Carol is fine now. Thank you
dc360tours has joined this chat.
Tell Carol our new Voyager site launches next week. Friday should go live. We are featuring a showcase with TourWeaver and PanoWeaver.
Hello, John Riley in South Carolina; seeing what is up with the IPIX chat....
8:50 PM
Sorry folks, one more minute!
Great! I will let her know. If you need any help, please contact me!
OK, just a like a party...every arrives on their own time!
OK,
I will. Next time when you ship out demo CDs of TourWeaver, make sur they are all burned.
welcome everyone, I see we have a good number of people here.
We got 2,000 CDs, and only a few hundred were burned. Rest were blank.
let's start...
yes I promise we will test each CD next time before I send to you.
Thanks.
ok Michael, I'm ready.
agenda: intros, status of ipix issues, alternatives, outlook, wrap up
OK. Welcome, I'm Mike Quan, IVRPA president. I'm in Boston.
Let's do introductions, quickly...
Hoyle?
Dave Roe, 3DR Communications, Washington, D.C.
Hoyle Koontz with Technipix in NC. . . high Dave. . .
Hey
Scott Highton, Author, Virtual Reality Photography, San Francisco, CA
Danny, from Easypano. Panoweaver 4 and Tourweaver 1.3 are our products. Shanghai, China.
8:55 PM
Bart Wilson here, CEO of Voyager International. Currently in Rocky Mountain Offices this weekend. Santa Fe, New Mexico.
mrorangeocelot has joined this chat.
good evening everyone
Jonathan24Gor has joined this chat.
thanks, is that everyone, Jonathan?
All set
Jonathan, can you intro yourself?
I work in New Haven CT, have worked in VT 5 yeaers
thanks.
tricky stuff here!
thanks again, everyone.
Can anyone tell us if they are NOW encountering PROBLEMS with using IPIX gear?
OK, can we agree on what the PROBLEMS ARE?
(expiring licenses, conversions/ preservation of image files.....)
My lisence expires Sept 15 can I expect to be able to use the software after that date?
i guess whats my concern is about the liscense
Who has the Real Estate Wizard 3.0 3.5 version?
If you have this, you can still buy keys from ipix site...
Heaven only knows how much longer that part of their site will still be working.
9:00 PM
so the IPIX site is still "doing" business?
Allow me to show everyone Voyager's iPIX hosting solution.
The obsolescence of a VR stitching/assembly software application, that will no longer be updated, supported, etc.
Not really.
Their e-commerce is still turned on.
who gets the money?
But we do not know for how long.
I'm guessing it goes to Tranzon now they are holding the liquidation sale of iPIX assets this month.
http://www.kayyah.com/ipix_livedemo.php?listingid=18998
IPIX's e-commerce site is still functioning because the company auctioning the assets needs the business to appear as though it exists.
so current IPIX users are looking for options? I take it.
Voyager has been hosting native iPIX tours for three years.
We've picked up a little over 730 iPIX photographers over the past three weeks.
no need to buy any new software or hardware.
just upload your iPIX tours to the Voyager back office, click save and you're dojne.
Bart, let's now make this into a commercial
For the customers who have Real Estate Wizard, get more keys now while you can.
Sorry, we have had great success with stitching VRs with iPIX photo bubbles with EasyPano.
And we are also working with Evan jones of Channel VR Australia.
I got an e-mail from IPIX on AUGUST 15th saying renew your license subscriptin but when I called there no one picked up the phone
VR Sticther can stitch the two photo bubbles too, but it needs more work.
I realize companies are stepping in to fill the void.
Well, the big problem is the patent work around.
iPIX holds the international patents on the joining of the two photo bubble images together.
are the real estate sites still requiring IPIX?
No, quite the reverse now.
Realtor.com BOOTED iPIX a few weeks ago.
You cannot host iPIX tours anymore if you do the direct upload to Realtor.com
We are the only firm still providing iPIX linking services (sorry if that sounded like a commercial).
9:05 PM
I think one of the main issues people are experiencing has to do with hosting the current images with the IPIX plug-in.
There are a lot of REALTORS and brokers with iPIX ger. They are not happy as a result. Many of them just bought their gear and licenses and keys in May and June of this year.
since the site is back up, not a big deal. but when the site was down. . . there was a lot of headache.
Well, so long as you can still generate the iPIX exported tour, there really is no problem if you have keys, and the free software, Real Estae Wizard.
right, people are holding gear, and are worried they will get stuck with nothing.
Will we be able to continue to stitch hemispheres into QT VRs after the termination of our annual license?
Yes you can.
Do you guys see a total abandonment of iPIX - even outside the REALTOR.com world - what about folks that still have some time on their licenses? Is everybody just going to drop iPIX altogether?
We don't.
Good!
We're still supporting EGG Virtual Tours.
They died last year in February.
So long as people have good reliable hardware and a good camera, and so long as your optic is not scratched... I say keep what you got.
The problem has always been hosting of different PanoApplets - JAR files.
Now I would like to say Easypano will go on developing Panorama software!
As far as hosting real estate tours, why not migrate to the popular QuickTime format (everyone who uses iTunes already has QT installed)?
And we like what we're seeing, Danny. Keep up the good work.
The problem with QuickTime (and this hurts to say this... I am ex-Apple) is that QT requires lots of people wot modest skills on PC to have to download QuickTime.
The single advantage of Java based tours is that you don't need this.
there are developments coming down the pipeline with Flash-based VR.
Just curious about anybody's experience with FC-E8 vs. FC-E9. Alot of folks tell me that the FC-E9's produce softer images - not as crisp?
And thanks to Microsoft new ActiveX upgrades, there was a big problem with people seeing QTVR files for a while... a few months ago.
which real estate sites are accepting IPIX, and which are not?
Thanks. FC-E8or E9 is good but has been stopped producing
(Folk remember you can "PRIVATELY" chat with someone also...
There are a bunch of FC-E9's on ebay as of yesterday!
ok sorry
Kayyah.com is Voyager's nly accepted server portal for REALTOR.com
(sorry for the commercial there)
9:10 PM
At any rate, the iPIX patents and software go up for bid in two more weeks.
One of my neighbors got a virtual tour for her house and they used IPIX just a few days ago. Century21 was the real estate company.
Whoever gets the winning bid should be making some announcments about providing -- resuming support for iPIX.
Yes, Century 21, REMAX there are scattered individual sites, but nothing national or international.
can anyone give us links to official announcements from RE website regarding IPIX images?
If anyone emails me, bwilson@voyager360.com I will send out the BusinessWire PR to them about our intent to bid on iPIX technology and our current support programs for iPIX customers.
Al of this is real estate focused at present. We will have another set of servers going up for non real estate iPIX hosting in late September.
Two will be deployed in the U.S, one in London, one in Berlin and the other will be hosted in Melbourne, Australia.
So real estate photographers are not moving to ONE-SHOT solutions?
instead of ipix?
Not everybody.
We do a lot of work with folks using the Bogen and Kaidan gear.
And they use PanoWeaver, TourWeaver.
I kinda miss the Apple VR Studio.
Sometimes One-shot solution cannot meet the demand
I told Steve jobs is was stupid for him to not continue that program.
one shots are easy 9stupid simple) for us REALTOR types.
IPIX images that were shot last year, are they in any danger? will they expire? what else can I do with them?
We get into a listing, shoot it, and publish in the MLs very quickly.
9:15 PM
Stitching requires lots of skills the average real estate agen does not have.
The finished iPIX tours are still running. If they ran last year, they will run this year.
Anyone know the whereabouts of Todd Taylor, IPIX technican extraordinare?
Those with the interactive studio program are in danger. These required licenses with unlock codes that provided the software owner with a fe months or a year's worth of usage.
panotools has joined this chat.
Thanks Michael !
I'd love to talk to Todd if he need a job.
So IPIX images shot last year are going to disappear?
No. But if you were on REALTOR.com two weeks ago, you may have seen them disappear.
iPIX tours made - saved in the ipx format are still good.
Why do you think the Ipix site came back online?
Pure economics.
There is no reason to turn off automation (e-commerce) when it can still make moneuy.
IPIX's e-commerce site is still functioning because the company auctioning the assets needs the business to appear as though it exists.
Is anyone answering the phone or replying to e-mail from the site?
iPIX had $520 million in debt.
so there are NO former IPIX people here?
in this chat....
Well let's face it. Shareholders of iPIX get nothing.
lots of theories out there for sure.
What $$$ is collected form the asset sale this month and what $$$ is gathered from any on-line sales has to go to the court appoint trustee to settle -resolve the debt.
9:20 PM
No theories, just facts on these. Voyager is already in contact with Tranzon the firm taking care of all of this.
Gosh, there goes my retirement home in the Bahamas... (grin)
are there other IPIX photographer lists?
I wonder if Ford had any outstanding fees due before they closed the doors.
Yes, there were a lot of customers.
This is one of the assets we want to acquire and will be bidding on.
good luck
Thakns. We did the same for EGG customers.
We're just doing what we can to help.
so no one has been able to "HACK" the ipix keys, or software?
break = hack
Well there are good work arounds.
EasyPano has a good solution. So does Channel VR.
I mean in terms of expirations of licenses?
I have IPIX Interactive Studio Version 1.4.2. My annual license expires Sept 15. Will I be albe to contiinue to fuse hemispheres after Sept 15th?
Probably not.
what about setting the computer date back?
Unless iPIX decides to post something in the mean time, your best bet is to try and find the FREE Real Estate Wizard software.
Ipix sent me a tool in 2001 to fix some tours. (regen keys) I wish I still had it around.
And buy keys now.
Michael, I'm not sure you want to encourage the "hacking" of proprietary property here.
encourage is a strong word
Hacking is a strong word.
I can say this, Voyager is working on making iP{IX compatible keys.
I don't hack, I only talk about it...
I'm certain Danny of EasyPano might be able to work on the same. Danny? Any thoughts on making an iPIX compatible key?
Of course, IPIX spent a lot of money "protecting" their software and revenue generating keys.
We are going to need some band aids for a lot of iPIX photographers if this asset sale takes longer than anyone might think.
I have 'hacked' many of my customers programs to get them to work. Isn't hack another way to say fix?
So did IBM, but look what happendd.
9:25 PM
Compaq, HP, Gateway...
Apple did the same thing.
Power Computing. SuperMac, etc.
OK, here's what we know, correct me if I am wrong:
Clones or compatible technology always comes out of situations like these.
1. IPIX licenses set to expire will expire, and right now (today) you are out of luck?
Correct?
No.
If you have a watered marked version of Itneractive Studio... you have a certain life clock of time built in.
For those who expire this month, there is nothing anyone can do.
right.
For THOSE who still have the FREE software called: Real Estate Wizard
You can still buy iPIX keys, and they work just fine.
thanks for clarification.
What is the Ford effect on all of this? It sounded like he was claiming ownership to spherical panos. Cubic a target?
Easypano will offer Panoweaver and Tourwever at 20% discount for former IPIX users
If we are to get the word out, I'd suggest to anyone here tonight on the blogs to speard the workd. GET Real Estate Wizard and go to ipix store and buy more keys. Enough to last you for 90 days worth of toours.
no, but you have to be careful.
the iPIX patent on putting photo bubbles together is pretty broad.
Anyone have any idea how many VR authors there are out there, particularly in the real estate tour field, that may be affected by this?
FYI: there is very little IPIX gear on ebay
The attorneys will be looking very closely at any company offering an iPIX compatible moduel to stitch 2 scene and 4 sceene panos.
How do we know if we have a watermarked version of Interactive Studio? I have a USB dongel switch that allows me to use the software on any computer.
Check your license.
When does the license expire?
Sept 15, 2006
Your old license # when you paid for it, blasted the dongle, and effective set the watermark inside that chip to expire on a certain date.
9:30 PM
At the risk of cheating, I'm game for suggesting you do not chagne your clock for a few weeks or a month.
Mopst of the dongle stuff iPIX used can be easily thrown off by keeping your computer date-time SET to a few months back.
right, is setting your computer clock back a "work a round?
We've done these tests, is a nice work around and it is working for us here at our Pixel Playground camp.
It's worth a try... ESPECIALLY if you have an expiration date coming up this month and you have paying customers that need final iPIX produced tours.
Let's talk about alternatives. If people want FISHEYE output like IPIX, what are the alternatives out there?
and under the circumstances, I see no harm in doing this.
Easy Pano and the VR Sticther are the only ones I know of.
Anyone else? What about RealViz Stitcher or the VR Works people?
Creative idea about setting the time back. Thanks!
hahahah you DID NOT hear this from me.

I have a small Windows program I wrote that will get the current date/time (save it) run a program, wait a second or two and then reset the clock back to the correct time.
what about multiple fisheye shots using Ptgui, Ptmac? Realiviz stitcher?
sounds good. keep us all posted.
Easypano use the SAME EQUIPMENTS to take fisheye images so you DO NOT need to buy new lens or cameras!
I have received emails from photographers who say they have moved away from IPIX in the past year. They are using other hardware/software.
Panoweaver can stitch 2 fisheye images, 3 fisheye images, 4 drum images(4+t), and full frame 6+t images
If you want some tedious reading to put you to sleep at night, do a search on the US Patent office web site -- http://www.uspto.gov -- for "fisheye, virtual, display (etc.)" type patents.
(I'm not sure what they are using...)
You'll find many dozens, if not hundreds of broadly overlapping patents for such technologies.
Nobody really owns the core technology for creating and displaying VR panoramas shot with fisheye optics, although many claim to own a piece of it.
It's a matter of who has the money to defend or attack others' use of such technologies (i.e. deep pockets).
9:35 PM
Can we identify others like Easypano? VR stitcher?
Would love to post more options on the Voyager website for this. These are the only two that I know of.
Anyone else?
RealViz?
I believe these photographers of whom I spoke are using more "labor intensive" workflows...
iPIX software made this pretty easy to stitch two or four shots together.
Remote Reality used to have this technology, and they had a quad head shot.
Vlad (Spherical Panorama) has a nice 3 shot fisheye stitcher, viewer (Windows) and a 360 movie viewer.
Did 360 X 360 tours, but they stopped making this product last year.
If I have an IPIX file in my computer from last year, will it work by year's end?
Yes. so long as it is saved in .IPX format
(can I view it with the ipix viewer?)
The finished tours have no problem.
what about SINGLE images?
Proof is in the pudding.
http://www.kayyah.com/ipix_livedemo.php?listingid=18998
These are live iPIX tours and hosted by Voyager, not Host @ iPIX.
for example on the street in NYC?
Bennett Landis has joined this chat.
the tour supports single images, in this case, the photographer did not (yet) upload any.
plus if you look, there are Google Satellite maps built in, too.
So when we did the iPIX hosting, we dramatically improved what the customer got.
9:40 PM
Michael, you can tell anyone who is an IVRPA member, they will get two months of free iPIX hosting.
We're happy to do it.
how many IPIX photographers are we talking about out there? with IPIX gear, and licenses?
We think the number is close to 300,000 or more.
In three weeks, we picked up a little over 700 of them
Bart, what information is that number based on?
We will not know exact number until we get a hard copy of iPIX assets from Tranzon this month.
wow, so most are sitting idle?
Well, for the most part, my previous conversattions with iPIX
Talk about having the right product at the right time. (700 of them)
Sorry, 700 iPIX customers.
Some had Interactive studio software, others had the Real Estate Wizard (free) software + keys.
To answer Michael's question...
We went to a real estate conference in July in San Francisco.
interesting, so there are some "opportunities" out there in "helping" IPIX photographers...
Inman Connect. Was at Palace Hotel last week of July.
There were only 2,500 or so attendees. But a surprising amount of them either had iPIX gear.
Was working with an iPIX photographer or they worked with a local newspaper who had a big iPIx license.
9:45 PM
So I'm thinking the # of iPIX customers with gear and software/hardwre is a pretty big number. I'm guessing at 300,000 customers to maybe a half million.
Remember they started a long time ago, then they tied the know with Bamboo.com --- then Homestore (Realtor.com) etc.
There are 1.2 million REALTORS in the US alone, and of this, I'm thinking than 20% or more had iPIX tours or used them.
someone was making some money
There Is a big opportunity in helping solve the headache that iPIX photographers and customers have now.
Then how about Easypano?
just like helping the EGG customers. Same thing, just one year ago.
OK, we should wrap up...
EasyPano seems to have a solid solution. The photographer keeps their hardware, and when their software expires 9interactive Studio) jsut get the EasyPano software and throw away the old iPIX USB dongle.
Then you're back in business.
anyone with last thoughts?
unanswered questions?
A big thank you from me to IVRPA Michael for you're making this special invite for Voyager.
:_0

Anyone who needs help, we're happy to give any IVRPA member two free months of hosting of your native iPIX tours.
Just identify yourself when you call.
We are an Easypano retailer, so if you need the software to replace interactive Studio, we can help there too.
I know IPIX had a "checkered" history, but it did popularize the "virtual tour" concept.
Well, I think Apple did that.
Easypano will offer discount for former IPIX users and please contact support@easypano.com
I was at Apple Developer university in 1997. We did a gret job of QTVR.
virtual tours are not going away....
Bart, I still question your 300,000 estimate. Take a look at IPIX's last annual report and look at licensing income.
9:50 PM
Thanks for the insights
iPIX was just getting started in 1997 and made it very popular when they bought out Bamboo.com
Ah you are welcome.
I do not think that iPIX posted everything
Then divide by the annual license cost. I don't think you'll get anywhere close to 300,000. You are probably off bya factor of 10 - 100.
I use Adobe Photoshop yet I have NEVER registered.
scott, I'm not sure I would trust any published numbers from IPIX.
I would be happy to put something about your IPIX hosting on the PanoTools.Info site if you wish.
There are lots of customers out there that do that. We can get the FREE software called Real Estate Wizard.
I think you need to look at how many downloads there were in three years form Realtor.com
OK, last thoughts? (real quick...)
Michael, Annual reports of public companies HAVE to contain accurate financial reporting information.
Hi Danny, yes, we should do that. Thanks.
enron?
Enron?
No not ENRON, but how can you track for free downloads?
We gave out more than one million copies of PhotoFolio when Apple did the first release of iMacs
Some will write an interesting history of ipix some day, that will be subject to vigorous debate!
they never did that many in one year, yet we did over a million downloads and licenses.
Only 30,000 some thousand peopl;e ever bothered to register.
Downloads are different than paid authoring licenses. The authoring license income is the only measurable information of how many authors are actually creating the IPIX content.
right, but if you have the free software from iPIX, you're still a customer right?
(Or WERE creating it...)
OK, thanks everyone. We are going to hold another chat like this at a time more friendly to our European friends. look for an announcement. The full text will be on the IVRPA website.
Thanks everyone. Good night from Santa Fe.
Thanks all. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
thanks to everyone who participated. the opinions here are the individuals and do not represent endorsements...blah blah blah....
Thanks Michael for helping me get logged in !
(no such thing as a dull IPIX conversion!)
Adios from New Haven
Thanks Michael !
9:55 PM
I bid goodnight from Ashland, OR
goonigoodnight.
Feel free to continue these spirited discussion in the IVRPA forum...(free!)
panotools has left this chat.
WE will release Panoweaver 5 and Tourweaver 2 soon! please visit our website!